The Biggest Marketing Mistake 99% Of Companies Make

[Music]
on today's show we're talking about how
the cost of marketing is up a hundred
and eight percent in 10 years that is
going to many many businesses
but it's not if you do one thing and
that's what we're going to talk about
with you today I'm your co-host kit
Bodner CMO at HubSpot I'm joined by my
co-host Kieran Flanagan who's the CMO at
zapier this is marketing Against the
Grain let's get into Today's Show
oh
[Music]
here we're starting off with a bummer on
today's show we got some hot data from
befriended the Pod that we want to walk
through because
it's it's a little scary break down for
everybody watching what's happening uh
with some hot off the process data from
our friend Patrick right Patrick
Campbell being on the show many times an
incredible purveyor of data so he had a
really good tweet where he talked about
the cost to acquire a customer is going
up a hundred and eight percent so for
all of these companies and all of us
trying to acquire company customers and
grow businesses that cost has gone up
180 that's an incredibly high cost right
because the cost of products in a
competitive landscape continues to try
to get pulled down like people try to
compete on pricing so what do you do in
your business costs to require a
customer continue to go up and the cost
to charge a customer for these products
continue to be pulled down because of
competition there's a reason that this
is happening and I've made this point
before since 2016 there has been a
growth in the number of people who do
marketing by a hundred and something
percent I can't remember the exact
number but it's a hundred and something
percent the number of marketing channels
has grown zero actually you could argue
it has decreased because the number of
social platforms that now allow you to
promote things and kind of redirect
people to your site has completely gone
down everyone's creating a closed wall
Google itself on its search engine
trying to create a closed wall trying to
keep you on their side so like pretty
hard out there for a marketeer and it
has a hard time to grow a customer
acquisition engine to actually be able
to acquire customers at scale and also
profitably the thing that we always hold
ourselves accountable to or good
marketers hold themselves accountable to
is LTV to cost how much of a does it
cost me to require this customer how
much do I earn back from that customer
and we are going to talk about what is
the solution to this like should all
marketers and founders and everybody
who's reliant on growing the number of
customers you have which is like every
business should we all just give up pack
our bags go home actually would be cool
that most people did because then we
could just have all the channels to
ourselves but I think there's another
thing that you and I are passionate
about so why don't we kind of tell the
listeners a little bit about the future
a little bit about why we think there's
a certain Trend that will be accelerated
because of this well and the reason we
we're going to talk about the future is
because it's not just it's gotten bad
it's that it's continuing to get bad
like if you look at Patrick's tweet
right it's like oh the trend of this
data is that it's going to keep getting
worse not keep getting better right and
so you're going to kill your margins as
a business and then subsequently you're
gonna end up having to slash your
marketing Investments if you're invested
in the wrong types of marketing right in
a world where where cost of customer
acquisition is up 108 you have to be
very very disciplined on the type of
marketing that you're doing and and we
want to talk to you a little bit in the
future about what you've got to do and
Karen I think that is all about
something you and I have spent a lot of
time doing studying practicing and that
is you go you're going to have to invest
more in very focused B2B creators we're
talking to the B2B folks but if you're
consumer creators work for you too we're
talking about creators before we even
get into that Carrie can you break down
like what do we mean what what what does
a Creator what do they do what is the
strategy that actually is going to help
people grow their businesses what we
have always been passionate about is
being able to like grow our own audience
even though we work at companies I think
you and I have valued having an audience
of our own I know you started your
career and were you were writing the
books on social media before you ever
kind of got placed in the house part or
went to HubSpot I was building not doing
as something as good as that I was
building affiliate sites to earn money
but what was I learning about I was
learning about how to like build
something within a niche acquire an
audience and monetize that audience one
of my favorite sites that I ever built
that I I sold for some money was like
this fashion site and I could see there
was a gap in like how people wanted to
buy trainers at the time Sneakers but
they wanted to figure out how they I
love that you call them trainers it's
it's so cute but they what I what I
really discovered was like people want
to try their trainers on with certain
trousers you call pants for some reason
weird reason yeah I'll give you this
trousers are a way better word than
pants pants just they're a way better
word this is one of the Americans it
sounds like so demoralizing trousers
sounds so like proper and nice pants
sounds like you've had a really like
hard night at you wake up in the morning
just in a disheveled shape and you're
like got a pair of pants on yeah you
like you like sneakers right you're you
are I love I love sneakers I think I
think we're gonna be wearing some good
sneakers together next week it's gonna
be it's gonna be fun next week do doing
this live you know that the thing that
truly like changes how you feel about
your sneaker is the is is the try like
the trouser you wear whether it's the
correct tight fit long fit whatever it
may be it really changes so I basically
started this site that model shoes with
different types of trousers done really
well sold it really really good and so
but even ever since I got into marketing
and you got into marketing we've created
content we've tried a cultivated
audience there's people better than us
but we're pretty good at it for people
who work within the company and I we
started to see this trend continue right
we start to see founders with strong
points of view with strong social
followings with strong followings online
so why is all this happening why do we
think that B2B creators are going to be
a critical part of the ecosystem going
forward I think there's like three core
reasons it's because the channels that
we have relied on those brands are being
heavily disrupted and will continue to
be heavily disrupted via Ai and actually
disrupted to the point where it's in
real Advantage for creators and a
disadvantage for Brands so the first one
we can talk about maybe is paid
advertising right that 108 cost going up
where you have channels being saturated
is because you have an influx of capital
of all these new businesses starting
into the same amount of channels and
paid is one of the ones that struggles
with that the most because your costs
just get inflated and the other thing
I'll add is like AI actually reduces
your ability to compete unpaid down to
just one thing which is budget right
just I'm going to optimize the ads I'm
going to create the creative I'm going
to pick your audience I'm going to do
all of those things better than you but
over time the only thing you'll be able
to compete on is budget well hold on
hold on there's an important part I want
to make around paid marketing because a
lot of the increase in marketing costs
is coming from increased paid marketing
expense right and for folks who may be
less familiar most paid models work on
an auction model which means the less
competition the less you pay the more
competition the more you pay right would
you agree with that Karen like is that
the the right simplistic statement of
that that is how it works okay what has
happened over the last decade as those
costs have gone up is that they cost to
start a business have gone dramatically
down right it is easier than ever to
incorporate have software to run your
business have Logistics hire people all
of the things to build a business have
gotten way better like 10 times better
10 times easier 10 times cheaper so
that's been really great for consumers
because there's been more Choice out in
the world and that is fantastic but it's
sucks for marketers and it sucks for
marketers because that means that
there's now more competition and when
there's more competition you're
advertising prices go up and so when
we're talking about a creator-led
strategy and we're talking about
reducing your marketing costs one cheat
sheet is is a marketing strategy that
has is lower in competition where you
are doing things that your competitors
aren't and this this is very
counter-intuitive right if you're a
marketer out there you've always you've
talked to a CEO and it's like well what
are our competitors doing well why are
we doing that if our competitors aren't
doing that if that is the mindset you're
going to fail your business is going to
fail like cut this clip out go show it
to your CEO if you are doing what your
competitors are doing you were paying
over inflated prices your cost of
customer acquisition is going to go up
and your margins are going to go down if
you're willing to take a little risk and
deviate from what your competitors are
doing then you can be successful your
cost of customer acquisition can go down
and your margins will go up and that is
like the most simplistic way I can frame
it for everybody out there okay so I
think that you are touching on something
that this is where we want to get into
the original thinker I just want to ram
that the point on why bran really
quickly we've talked about it before
paid advertising getting commoditized
the Blue Links going away in favor of AI
chat uh search and that actually is hard
for marketers because it's hard to know
how to get your brand in there and
actually skews towards established
Brands social platforms close World
Gardens trying to pay creators to
actually create content on the platform
favors creators not Brands the thing
that you are talking about which I
really agree and okay this so like
you're listening to this you're like
okay what do you mean by a B2B Creator
and how do I even be a beauty Creator
and like how do I cultivate PW creators
within my brand because I truly believe
in the future a brand is really just
going to be made up of the creators who
work inside for B to B and B to C there
are three categories of creators and the
one that you were talking about is the
one I would love to spend some time on
there's the lazy Creator right the lazy
Creator is like the person there was
nothing wrong with being a lazy Creator
we all started lazy creators where we
see something we all want to get good at
it and we just kind of like put out some
things we haven't really thought through
it we don't know but the angle the hook
we don't know how it's differentiated we
don't know how it really resonates with
someone and so we just kind of throw it
out there hope it sticks then we have
the copy and paste Creator I think
that's a great way to learn like there's
a well-known a formula to learn
copywriting where you just kind of write
out great copy I used to do it where you
just write out great copy and over time
you train your brain to do that Sam par
who is friend of the show my first
million he actually has a whole course
where he teaches that and there's
nothing wrong with being a copy and
paste Creator and then you have the
original thinkers these are like the top
Epsilon and everyone's copying from them
and I think what you and I have talked
about is like AI smokes the lazy
creators totally smokes them because
it'll do a much better job than them it
expands the copy and Creator bucket
quadrant right gets much much bigger but
the original thing anchors are still up
there and they're like castles right
Onan the own in the internet and I think
for b2c we've seen a huge shift for
these people launching VC companies
launching products going to do boxing
taking over like the fight game and I
think we're gonna see the same B to B
and we're going to see these kind of
creators emerging we have some of them
in B2B but how do you be that original
thinker right like to your point all the
things you said sounds super easy but
are so hard to do because that's why the
only really 10 maybe 15 20 Max I
probably even less but all B2B marketers
can actually be considered in that
Creator bucket how do you get in that
Creator bucket like what do you think
how would we teach someone to to do that
yeah so first of all even the original
thinker bucket that you're going over
they really aren't original thinkers
like I I want to pretend that I'm an
original thinker but what I really am is
I'm a student of of culture and society
and I see what's happening in one part
and try to apply it differently in
another part right and that is like you
try to find market inefficiencies or
idea inefficiencies to basically kind of
make that happen and so you see that all
over the place where you know a friend
of the show Alex Lieberman he saw shark
tank and was like Hey I'm gonna do the
tick tock version of Shark Tank and I'm
gonna do 60 second entrepreneur and I'm
gonna have people pitch their products
in 60 seconds and have everybody on Tick
Tock respond that's a really original
idea but it is built off of something
that is existing and happening in the
world right and so even those original
thinkers aren't original yeah I still I
agree with that I still put that in
original thinker which is see thing can
apply it in a new way I think there is
no like and there's very few original
thoughts in the world full stop that is
the point I'm making yeah so I think I I
think maybe what's the better word for
original thinkers I don't know there's
probably a better cat way we should call
that category but the copy and paste
marketer takes what you said and just
tries to apply it in the same way in the
same space What Alex did was take take
an idea and apply it in a different way
and I think that is like that top
Echelon of people I'll test a little
just a little term on you that I've been
been working on for this for this that
you can determine if it's better than
original think or not I call it
pragmatic creatives you're pragmatic
creative you know the artists are
artists right they're just purely
creative they're just going to make
things and some of it's going to work
some of it's going to not are not but it
is truly like their art their thing if
you're a pragmatic creative you have
some type of goal some type of
constraints but you're able to apply
creativity within those goals and
constraints to do something really
valuable right and I think the best
creators are really pragmatic creatives
at the end of the day and the other
things so first traits of creators we
just walk through there's a level of
creativity and thought and what you want
is that original thinker pragmatic
creative level you can actually get
fairly far with the copy and paste you
know but you can't do is get very far at
all with the lay easy because the lazy
is just killed by AI the other reason
Kieran and the other trait that creators
have next that I want to talk about is
the best creators are ambidextrous which
means they have point of view they have
idea they have creativity and they can
apply that in any form or medium that
they want and the reason this strategy
is so important and interesting is
because it enables you to be agile I
want to try something on you Karen I I
haven't talked to you about this this is
this is new this is hot I've been
talking to some smart people this week
and my brain's been moving and I got I
got a new two by two I want to try on on
with you and and see what you think
ready
go it's a very simple two by two it is
so when we talk about creators you kind
of can't talk about creators without
talking about the place they create
whether that be video podcast long form
written content email what happened
right like that's just part parcel to
the Creator strategy so the two by two I
want to share is if you think about all
those formats if you were going to plot
them on a two by two where the vertical
axis up at the top is
High distribution it's easy to get seen
by a lot of people the bottom is low
distribution it's hard to get seen by a
lot of people and then on the horizontal
axis you have
easy to monetize and hard to monetize
and so ideally if you're a company
trying to reduce your cost of customer
acquisition what you're trying to find
is invest in the top right quadrant that
is wow I easy to high distribution easy
to monetize so I can get in front of a
lot of people and I can actually
monetize that audience in an effective
way for my business Kieran what I want
to know from you is what would you put
in that top right quadrant what would
you say hey this is a these are the
channels these are the places that I
think are high distribution High
monetization
because I have two that's it I have two
okay well YouTube is definitely on your
list right YouTube is one of my two what
is the so I can't put podcasting on that
list because podcast is high
monetization low distribution it is in
the bottom right corner low distribution
right I'm gonna put LinkedIn which you
are not going to put but I'm going to
say it's the Google search man it's
Google search I need it but you can't
beat you can't yeah but for a Creator
I'm talking about creators oh but you
can write content for Google search if
you're a Creator yeah I guess you can
yeah I guess I'm I'm just telling you if
you're a business out there if you're
trying to focus if you're trying to
focus there's hope there's nothing else
in that top quadrant make an argument of
anything else you would put in that top
right quadrant
High distribution High monetization
LinkedIn is a fair argument I could
maybe maybe get there I think Google is
like the I put that into the category of
channels being disrupted but favorite
Brands versus creators because if you
have more resources more ability to like
turn out search content you know that
actually helps you in that channels
where I think having those things
doesn't help you in the kind of creator
that channel it doesn't really help you
have all the resources you want but not
have the talent to go really big
audience in YouTube grow big audience to
LinkedIn I 100 agree with that right
like name you give me a give me a brand
versus Creator let them go at Google and
search I put my money on a as long as a
brand is a capable brand like no one is
going to like out HubSpot HubSpot no one
is going to add zap years so so here so
here is the argument that kieran's
making I wanna I'm gonna I'm gonna make
your argument better than you're making
your argument okay so that's that's how
nice I hear it I'm gonna make your
argument better than you're capable of
making it let's go you're actually
making the argument if you're talking
about creators that creators are best
suited when they have a Level Playing
Field and don't have a lot of
infrastructure investment so like for
example what that means anybody can go
and set up a YouTube account for free
and everybody starts from the same place
right doesn't matter if you have a
billion dollars or zero dollars you
start from the same place you publish
you create you build a community and you
go right
but he's making the argument of is the
internet and websites and web search is
a little different because you have to
first of all you have to have the money
and infrastructure to host and build a a
website you have to build credibility
and authority to that website and it's
easier to do that if you have more money
and more people you can build links you
can publish content faster you can
arguably maybe publish better content
and so that's a more of an uneven
playing field that does favor those that
have resources is that the argument
you're trying to make sure I may yeah
I'm making the argument that creators
will win when content is the primary
thing that is the difference between win
or losing right and so where good ideas
personality points of view Trump the
ability to do like technical
optimizational websites or all that
stuff so I agree I think it's like
content is the primary factor that
determines whether you win or lose and I
that is not true I think of Google
search there's a bunch of different
things in there okay so let's let's say
we're going to put Google in its own
special box for this discussion is there
anything that goes in that top right
quadrant other than YouTube for you I'm
going to put LinkedIn in there I think
LinkedIn
this is fascinating tell me why Elon is
going to make a mess of X people are
going to like Flock to other channels no
no so all right you're gonna have you're
gonna you want to have the X
discussion don't tell me you think he's
gonna make he's going to make a good you
think he's going to make X well first of
all first of all he's proven the social
experiment that Network effects matter
more than anything else because he has
done everything he has done everything
possible to try to change it and people
are still killing everybody I use it
every day you use it every day so how so
how bad is it actually going to be I
don't create half as much on that
platform as I used to I've got I'm
falling on YouTube baby I'm I'm all in
on YouTube but I still consume a lot on
YouTube and Linkedin are my two
platforms of choice I made I've made a
prediction
when Elon bought X that we would look a
year from that purchase and then Twitter
would be in a better place than it was
before he bought it and I stand by that
I hope it's true I I would like to see
another platform succeed I think it
would be better for all of us if x is
successful but I definitely have seen
some of the better creators on their get
way less attention and engagement in
some of the worst creators on there who
just create things to rile up people get
much more attention and think that's why
I think the people who want to like
create content around ideas and thoughts
and points of view might gravitate to
another platform then whether I'm right
or not I don't know but I would like to
remind out this conversation because we
talked about two things that can help
you be a Creator I want to like have the
third one uh make sure we we end on the
third one oh hold on but before we do
the third one actually I I want to close
out on like the whole two by two and the
discussion we were having two by two the
reason the reason I I just brought up
that two by two is because
channels change
right and that you have to have agility
and a channel that might be high
monetization high distribution that
might go away a year from now or the
competition might get so bad the
distribution isn't as good right and so
the great thing about a creator-led
strategy is that it's very agile and a
Creator who is telling interesting
stories can do that across any channel
and that's that's the point I was trying
to make I think this is the like that's
if you have a brand you can blend
together the traditional brand channels
and creators you get the best of both
worlds because I still think it's really
hard as a brand to win on these other
channels the third one I think that the
third bucket do I called Original
thinkers you call pragmatic creators
pragmatic creators creatives whatever it
doesn't matter but yes we have our own
skills it's fine I think they are
entrepreneurial in spirit and what do I
mean by that they are oh I love they
test and iterate really fast the thing I
love about content and I've always loved
it by content it's the feedback loop is
instant especially on these social
platforms like have idea put idea out
there does idea get any traction what
worked what didn't change for the next
idea and you can actually use those
ideas to ladder up to like create
presentation a book a whatever it may be
but you can like test chunks of your
idea we've tested parts of what we're
going to cover at inbound and different
formats online and it gives you such a
incredible feedback loop going back to
like Alex but he's not the only one like
really good creators you see him try it
we can you can see him try everything
and so why are the entrepreneurial in
nature because you have to be okay with
fall and flat on your face multiple
times in a very public way like when you
put a video on X or YouTube or I used to
put them on LinkedIn and they get no
engagement right you feel like someone
has stabbed you in the heart right
they're like oh geez for a human being
ever it's a it's a very personal feeling
like you're putting yourself out there
for the world and people are saying no
like I'm not going to like this this is
not cool
it's worse than I'm not gonna like this
it isn't cool it's like I would remember
watch videos of dogs running into each
other
right which is like the most like the
Apex of humiliation right so you have to
have that entrepreneurial mindset where
you're like cool I'll try another thing
I'll try another thing I'll try another
thing I'll try another thing and you
just continue to grind it very few
people I think out of the gate have just
like crushed content now maybe there's
like one or two people but I suspect
even they look like overnight successes
before that they have been that
overnight success they've tried content
in multiple ways we talked to Matt wolf
what was one of the incredible things
that he told us he has been at the
YouTube thing since 2016. trying
different things and it didn't work
until he really got into the AI space
now he is like crushing in that space
very few people would put themselves
their face themselves on a video
platform day in day out having people
just ignore them or having people not
pay any attention to them and just
getting your soul crushed and that is is
why B2B creators some of the best B2B
creators are founders right like many of
the best beauty Creator today are are
incredible Founders because they
actually get the iteration they get the
failure they get the grind to like
success and I think that's a one of the
characteristics you really have to have
to be successful it's not just that I
think you're making a great point but I
I think there's a complimentary trait
that we also need to talk about they're
anti-insular which basically means like
historically I think if you run a
company you've been like oh I want my
employee completely focused on my
business I don't want them to have any
side projects I don't want to have them
to have anything going on and what
normally happens is that's actually
counterproductive because what they
failed to do is they don't learn they
don't have outside perspective they
don't iterate on ideas fast enough and
like that it eventually ends up to just
mediocre work like if I want to be
really honest the people that have the
best ideas and and make the highest
impact are anti-insular which means that
they don't insulate themselves in the
wall of a company they just live in the
world and they are trying to learn from
as many people as possible and iterate
on those ideas as fast as possible to
learn and then apply that learning
whether it be for a business for them
individually for both it doesn't matter
that's what they're trying to do I
agreed so I think like we have actually
given everyone three things that will
actually help you to be that B2B Creator
or even if you want to incorporate these
people into your company what to look
for last thing we should just random
last couple of minutes
what do we telling a company to do I
think I'm telling you yeah to actually
have these people be in your
organization but also have a program
where you can work with these people so
you get the best of both worlds I don't
think you want to have it completely
outsourced where like your podcast and
all your social channels are run by
external creators but I think there's
some amount of that that is good it's
why we set up the Creator program
originally in HubSpot I know it's gone
from strength to strength but then you
want to have a culture where you create
these people from the finder top down
which means you have to have the ability
as a brand to not care that your people
in your company have points of view on
social or creating things like really
get an engagement by creating strong
points of view by having side projects
one of the things that HubSpot was
actually pretty good at always was
allowing people the freedom to have side
projects they actually encouraged it
because it helped them learn and so you
have to create a culture where these
people can be successful within your
company I think we traditionally have
created a culture where we want them to
be blend into everyone else like they we
want them to sound like everyone else in
the company and that means it's boring
right like it's totally boring those
people are not going to stay in the
company they're not going to work there
they're just going to start their own
thing I think a lot of creators just end
up going to start their own thing and so
you need to prepare for the world from
top down like is your founder
strong and so like on these channels has
strong point of view but create that
culture where you're going to have
people be the voice of your company on
these platforms cured I have a great
story that I heard on this topic that I
want to share with you you're ready for
it uh listen to podcast and on that
podcast there's a guy named Mike
Lombardi and Mike Lombardi is a long
time NFL coach executive like all of
those things and he was telling a story
where he worked for Bill Walsh Bill
Walsh Kieran is one of I'm spelling
explaining American football to cure and
everybody watching sorry I'm just gonna
uh
he thinks because he's watched the
quarterback documentary
he didn't do very well did he in the end
no no he didn't okay but this story is
Mike Lombardi was saying he worked for
this legendary coach Bill Walsh Bill
Walsh coach the 49ers when Joe Montana
and Steve Young were there and they won
I forget five Super Bowls or whatever
right and he was talking about
the decision to bring in Steve Young
which was the quarterback that came in
after Joe Montana and he was in his
coach's room which had Mike holgrum all
like basically like everybody who he was
asking would go on to be Hall of Fame
people in the NFL so like really
brilliant people in the AFL right and he
asked them
each of them if she if they should bring
in Steve Young to replace Joe Montana's
their quarterback Joe Montana's at the
end of the end of his career and not
playing that well and all of them said
no stay with you stay with you and Mike
Lombardi tells the story of
after all that happens I walk up to Bill
Walsh and Bill Walsh says go pick up
Steve Young at the airport
he was like they're wrong we have to
change we have to evolve and and that
that consensus opinion leads to bad
decisions right and that's what we're
talking about with your marketing is if
your leadership team is obsessed with
consensus decision making
you're going to fail you're going to pay
the high cost of customer acquisition
tax right you're going to have to just
do more paid do the same strategies your
competitors are doing and paid more and
more for them every year if you're
willing to make individualistic
decisions and you're willing to make
decisions that are not purely
predictable not purely rational you will
differentiate your cost of acquisition
will go down your growth and your
margins will go up right
businesses die because people won't have
hard conversations or make hard
decisions yes that that is the lesson
here and that is and this is why CAC is
going up CAC is going up because
everybody's scared of doing the same
it's also what you get and not
actually doing anything original it's
also why some of your most ineffective
managers are some of your most loved
that's a problem with the 360 reviews
because and then you dig in it's like
that manager sucks that's why you love
them so much because they'll let you do
whatever you want
I thought it was a fun story I thought
it was a good a good note to end on we
have talked to you a little about the
camera make sure you watch this
watch the gators gators man just
everybody watching understands here's
the understanding of American football
is the Netflix quarterback documentary
which he thinks Patrick Mahomes is
awesome smart take good take because
Patrick Vance is awesome and then and
then Johnny Manzel and Tim Tebow like
that's your reflection of American
football come on man Divo was man that
guy's a competitor didn't drink didn't
do anything he just competed I love that
shout out to people oh Kieran you didn't
do anything I get this feeling that he
did he he didn't do anything weird did
they you're kind of give me Vibes
there's there's some weird stuff there
you do some Google searches just just do
some do some Google searches
all I know is the gator documentary so
don't come at me but like you did weird
stuff after that right I don't know
anything all right I'll get all good
Tebow Tebow is definitely an interesting
character
but I don't know how we go from creators
and CAC to Tim Tebow but welcome that's
marketing Against the Grain everybody
that's what we do we go all the way all
the way around but we're bringing it
back we gave you some practical ways we
gave you the breakdown of creators on
today's show we gave you a blueprint to
reduce your CAC long term we're going to
keep talking about this on the show but
this is a great first step we'll be back
very soon with a live from inbound
edition of marketing Against the Grain
and uh we'll see you then this data is
wrong every freaking time
have you heard of HubSpot
HubSpot is a CRM platform where
everything is fully integrated well I
can see the client's whole history call
support tickets emails and here's a test
from three days ago I totally missed
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